Warren Spector and Dough Church have worked together and separately on games for more than 10 years. Although they often have worked on projects with similar goals, the do not always agree on what methods are appropriate to reach them. Similarly, although their interests overlap on issues of design, player behavior and effective tools for players and developers, there are notable areas of difference in their ideas and approaches. In this session, they discuss these and other issues, often agreeing, but at times politely disagreeing about what should come next for games, as a medium of entertainment for players, as a medium of expression for developers, and as a medium of profit for publishers.